Post

7 followers Follow
8
Avatar

Differentiate of Split Pace and Current Pace in Audio Cues

hi, all. I am using Version 6.4.2 (278) on iOS 9.2.

I am using Audio Cues function to know my pace down or up during long distance training (10-30km). But the current "Split Pace" tells me the latest pace for the last one minute running or that for 10-20 seconds running, I guess. I could not find any difference between "Current Pace" and "Split Pace". All I want to know is the required time for the latest one Kilometer (or Mile). I believe that most of long distance (Marathon etc.) runners want to know his/her latest pace per Kilometer (or Mile), don't you?
Could you kindly start consideration of the implementation of this function?

Thanks for reading, Toshi@Japan

Katsumata Toshihiro

Please sign in to leave a comment.

14 comments

0
Avatar

Indeed, it is missing the "Average Current Split Pace" which would give your average pace of the defined distance trigger...

Pier-Olivier 0 votes
0
Avatar

Bumping this post as it is a feature I have been missing badly ever since I started using Runkeeper five years ago!!
For me, Current Pace and Split Pace is quite useless, I rarely notice a difference, and, as OP write, it is based on a very short interval and not the 1km/1mile that long distance runners often rely heavily on to adjust pace.

RK: Please please make this happen!

Mikael Kronborg 0 votes
0
Avatar

Pier-Olivier and Mikael,

Thanks for your comment. I am still waiting for the correction of this feature ("Current Pace" and "Split Pace"), but no reply yet.
I think, this is the one of the most important information during long running. Wish prompt updating by RunKeeper, or else, I need to find the other Software :(

Katsumata Toshihiro 0 votes
0
Avatar

I actually went for a run just after posting my reply yesterday, and ran with my old trusted digital watch as well as my phone with the RK app runnning. Everytime I got the 1km cue from RK, I made my own split time on my watch.
The "Current Split Pace" I got from the app corresponded fairly well to the watch split times (+/- 15 seconds), with a few cues that were completely off (>1 minute).
One thing I did notice was that one of the times it was completely off, I had manually requested an audio cue halfway through the kilometer, so I guess that what the app calculates is not pace each kilometer, but rather since the last audio cue was given. Makes sense?

Mikael Kronborg 0 votes
0
Avatar

Oh, and what I usually do with 1km splits when I don't have the stop watch with me is to calculate the split manually in my head, by remembering and subtracting the time of the previous audio cue from the new one - gives your mind something to do on those long runs :)

Mikael Kronborg 0 votes
0
Avatar

Same issue here. Runkeeper could you please comment on your plans regarding this request?

Dmitry Vlasov 0 votes
0
Avatar

I started using the 3 defaults then turned on split pace and current pace, plus have tried intervals of 0.25km and 0.5km (audio cues only on distance)

I don't have a lot of data to go off but when I did split pace at 0.5 intervals. The half interval (X.5km) appeared correct or at least close but the km interval (X.0km) was way off (I got a sub 7min per km walking). The 0.25 intervals I have only done once and did get numbers that were off but didn't detect any trends.

What would good is to first understand how splits work in the app as no one reporting this can seem to explain this. (lets assume 0.25km for the different ways I thought it might be calculated)

a) Last interval time x 4

b) Sum of last 4 interval times (if there is less than 4 interval times it is Sum of interval times available X 4 / number of interval times available

c) Sum of interval times since last full km x 4 / number of interval times since last full km (don't think its this but it could be a way to do it)

For current pace I'm guessing its the last 10-15 seconds  which shows up on the screen as you run so you just get a snap shot of when kat talks to you.

Would be good if we could at least get told how it is suppose to work then we could firstly understand when it does work and when it doesn't.

Maybe they transferred the time splits across and got the coding wrong just for distance? Can anyone confirm if these work correctly all the time?

For now the best way for me do my splits is remember the seconds from the last split and if it 2min or less im going fast, 2min 5sec or less is OK and above that is not. Just lucky I am walking just over 2m per 250m.

 

 

 

Wayne Thair 0 votes
0
Avatar

Done a few more walks with current pace off (seem useless for what I am doing) and 0.25 intervals.

Still working off memory but fairly confident its actually using method c. Also fairly confident the X.25, X.50 and X.75 split pace is correct. Still not a clue what its going for X.00.

Going to try and record the audio cues and then try an reverse engineer it. If anyone has any good data feel free to share.

Wayne Thair 0 votes
0
Avatar

OK, finally recorded a slow 6km walk.

An issue I have uncovered is it looks like the app is using more accurate data in its calculations (eg parts of seconds and/or down to maybe the metre) than Kat tells us.

That said I can confirm when you set audio stats/how often to distance and 0.25km the intervals use this calculation

c) Sum of interval times since last full km x 4 / number of interval times since last full km.

I still have no idea with the interval time at the full Km. The 6 were out 13%, 7%, 20%, 8%, 23%, 4% by my calculations.

DATA

Time Distance Current Pace Split Pace  Diff Split Diff
00:00.0 0 00:00.0 00:00.0   
02:39.0 0.25 10:35.0 10:35.0  02:39.0 02:39.0
05:12.0 0.51 10:16.0 10:16.0  02:33.0 05:12.0
07:39.0 0.75 10:10.0 10:10.0  02:27.0 07:39.0
10:10.0 1.01 10:06.0 08:49.0  02:31.0 10:10.0
12:36.0 1.26 10:02.0 09:49.0  02:26.0 02:26.0
15:06.0 1.5 10:03.0 09:57.0  02:30.0 04:56.0
17:16.0 1.75 09:52.0 09:35.0  02:10.0 07:06.0
19:46.0 2.01 09:52.0 08:52.0  02:30.0 09:36.0
22:22.0 2.25 09:56.0 10:10.0  02:36.0 02:36.0
24:47.0 2.5 09:55.0 10:08.0  02:25.0 05:01.0
27:07.0 2.75 09:51.0 09:49.0  02:20.0 07:21.0
29:32.0 3.01 09:49.0 07:49.0  02:25.0 09:46.0
31:41.0 3.25 09:45.0 08:51.0  02:09.0 02:09.0
33:54.0 3.5 09:41.0 08:51.0  02:13.0 04:22.0
36:18.0 3.75 09:41.0 09:05.0  02:24.0 06:46.0
38:33.0 4 09:38.0 08:18.0  02:15.0 09:01.0
40:50.0 4.26 09:36.0 09:03.0  02:17.0 02:17.0
43:18.0 4.51 09:36.0 09:20.0  02:28.0 04:45.0
45:32.0 4.76 09:35.0 09:16.0  02:14.0 06:59.0
47:56.0 5 09:35.0 07:15.0  02:24.0 09:23.0
50:26.0 5.26 09:36.0 09:32.0  02:30.0 02:30.0
52:54.0 5.5 09:37.0 09:53.0  02:28.0 04:58.0
55:29.0 5.76 09:38.0 10:00.0  02:35.0 07:33.0
58:03.0 6 09:41.0 09:41.0  02:34.0 10:07.0

Wayne Thair 0 votes
0
Avatar

Above I was looking at all the 0.25km gaps. Another way to highlight the bug, this is what the splits page read and what audio cues said at each km mark

1km 10:06 / 8:49

2km 9:38 / 8:52

3km 9:45 / 7:49

4km 9:04 / 8:18

5km 9:24 / 7:15

6km 10:07 / 9:41

The only thing that is consistent is the 1st km is ALWAYS out 12-13%. I suspect its putting in 7 intervals and dividing by 8. (yeah bizarre why would it enter more than 4 intervals if it only has 4)

Maybe someone has already had a crack at fixing this but not quick got their head around the problem. Clearly audio cues is using different logic to the saving mechanism to view on the splits page .

 

Wayne Thair 0 votes
0
Avatar

Today put on every minute in additional to my normal audio cues (If 2 land within about 10 secs you only get the first one)

Interestingly I couldn't get the bug to occur on time but distance kept happily happening. I even had by total luck a time of 32mins 4km but avg time was 7:59 which means it was a time trigger not a distance trigger (eg 3.998 km) and the split pace worked fine.

Whats different about time is it will always (or at least nearly always) fall either side of a full km. If its just over it might be a very short interval but its still wont be out a ton like this.

 

This is all I have without runkeeper looking into this or seeing the code that does this calculation.

Request #301888

The only thing I can think of is say the 1k interval might be 1.003/2.003 km for example and the code gets confused as its not a part km anymore.

Wayne Thair 0 votes
0
Avatar

Decided to deliberately do the first km at different speed per interval and see what I got. It was out a TON. Now wonder if that helps work out what the first km is doing at least.

 

Time Distance Current Pace Split Pace  Diff Split Diff
00:00.0 0 00:00.0 00:00.0   
03:05.0 0.25 12:22.0 12:22.0  03:05.0 03:05.0
06:01.0 0.5 11:57.0 11:57.0  02:56.0 06:01.0
08:25.0 0.76 11:07.0 11:07.0  02:24.0 08:25.0
10:27.0 1 10:28.0 07:31.0  02:02.0 10:27.0

Wayne Thair 0 votes
0
Avatar

Did it the other way round. Still total crazy numbers.

 

Time Distance Current Pace Split Pace  Diff Split Diff
00:00.0 0 00:00.0 00:00.0   
01:52.0 0.26 07:15.0 07:15.0  01:52.0 01:52.0
04:04.0 0.5 08:06.0 08:06.0  02:12.0 04:04.0
06:41.0 0.76 08:51.0 08:51.0  02:37.0 06:41.0
09:41.0 1 09:41.0 09:23.0  03:00.0 09:41.0

 

Wayne Thair 0 votes
0
Avatar

Got feedback from Ken today on this.

Sadly this wont be fixed so if you want all your split times accurate your only option is to use the time option. If you use distance all splits provided at the full km will be incorrect.

For those that don't know how the split works on this app its actually the split pace since the last full km (not last audio cue). eg if you had done 3 x 0.25k taking 2min, 3min and 4min the split pace will be 8min at 0.25km mark, 10min at 0.5km mark and 12min at 0.75km mark.

Wayne Thair 0 votes